Ben: Openly Gay and Openly Faithful

Ben shares his captivating story about his experience of being an openly gay, active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Through his experience of coming out to his family, he learned the astonishing value of unconditional love as his family allowed him to make his own choices without judgement. Ben also learned to wrestle with uncertainty as he weighed his options and ultimately decided to remain active in the Church. He offers unique counsel for gay members, family members, and for ward members.

Further reading from Faith Is Not Blind:

“Still, even if yielding to such transforming experiences is necessarily a leap of faith, we can’t go there until we’ve walked as far as the light of our search for knowledge allows. And a lifetime of trying to make sense of mortality, especially on the days when it may not seem to make much sense, can give us the experience we need to appreciate the value of our sanctification.”

(Faith Is Not Blind, Chapter 7, “Beyond Balance,” p. 57)

FULL TEXT:

Faith Is Not Blind: I’m here today with Ben. Welcome.

Ben: Happy to be here.

Faith Is Not Blind: Thanks for being here. I’m wondering if you would take a minute and just introduce yourself a little bit.

Ben: I was born and raised in the church. My parents are both converts in the Seattle area. They joined the church year after they got married on the same day. And they have often argued about who got baptized first that day, but we’re pretty sure it was my mom. I’m the youngest of four. Happy, active, raised in the church. I served a mission in Chihuahua, Mexico when I was 19. I have three degrees from BYU–I call them my three degrees of glory. I have a PhD from the University of Arizona. I just recently became a therapist. I have a masters in social work now.

Faith Is Not Blind: You talked about your parents’ conversion, but tell us about your conversion to the church.  I know you were born into a family of members, but how does your conversion happen?

Ben: When you’re raised in the Church, it’s the thing you do. You go to church, you read scriptures–this is just what you do. The first time I thought I knew that the church was true was when I was at a youth conference. I was 14 years old.  I had a good time that weekend and then we had a testimony meeting with my peers. I remember listening to peers sharing their testimonies of the Savior and I had a feeling like a warm blanket was wrapped around me. I felt like the physical presence of God almost. I just knew it was true and as we were walking out of the building that day and walking across this field, I was just thinking, “How can I ever go back to playing video games or watch TV again?” God lives and he was real and that this was his church.

Faith Is Not Blind: Now that moment carried you through to your mission in Mexico?

Ben: I was so excited to serve a mission. I just wanted to find the version of my parents in Mexico. The Gospel just meant  so much to me and I wanted to share that with others.

Faith Is Not Blind: You wanted to share that joy you experienced at youth conference with other people, which is just fantastic.

Ben: Exactly

Faith Is Not Blind: What often happens on our path of discipleship is that there are difficulties that crop up. So what for you has been a complexity that you’ve had to deal with in your life?

Ben: The biggest thing has been my sexuality.  I first knew I was gay when I was in sixth grade and I first realized that I was attracted to other boys, And this was back in the 90’s when it wasn’t okay to be gay in society. So I didn’t want to be gay and I wasn’t gay and I hated having these feelings. But they didn’t trouble me a ton because I was going to go on my mission and that would fix me. People talked about making a deal with God and he would fix me, but I didn’t feel like I had to do that. I just felt like God would fix me. And it wasn’t until after my mission when I was 21 was the first time that I ever called myself gay. I had been home for around 3 days and was in my parents rec room watching a TV show with an attractive man on it and I remember feeling attracted to him and realizing those feelings were still there and thinking, “Oh my gosh. That didn’t work.” I remember praying that day and staying for the first time, “Heavenly Father, I think I’m gay and I don’t want to be.” And that started two years of my life where I very, very carefully went to the temple everyday and prayed regularly and fasted to to have these feelings go away.

Faith Is Not Blind: You know you’re at your home off your mission for 3 days and you have that experience with the TV. I just can’t imagine how that would feel because there you are thinking, “I’ve done all of these things. I’ve finished my mission now everything should be the way that I want it to be.” And then you realize it’s not. So what did it feel like in that moment? I would imagine you felt betrayed?

Ben: Yeah, the word “betrayal” might be a little stronger than how I felt. Maybe just disappointed. But I had no concept that my feelings of same-sex attraction weren’t going to change. I knew that they were going to go away. I just had to make sure that I did the right thing so they would go away. I tried to be like Nephi and he said, “If you go and do God will prepare the way.” So I did the very best I could to be straight. There were a couple semesters at my time at BYU where I decided to go on a date with a different woman every week. I have been on 27 blind dates and I’ve been out with probably a hundred unique women. I’ve spent  thousands of dollars and many hundreds of hours trying to get married. So it wasn’t until I’ve been home for two years and I’ve been dating like crazy and praying and fasting and going to the temple and doing what we used to call Home Teaching and, you know, all those things that things didn’t change. And I realized this isn’t going to go away. That’s when I finally started to think about, “How am I supposed to live my life as a gay person?” Because the only way I thought I could live was as a straight person. I thought, “That’s what that’s what was going to happen.” So there’s this point when you realize, “Okay, this isn’t going to go away.”  I have to figure out how to live now. I still have this testimony that I feel that I’ve had ever since I was young that I’ve nurtured and yet I have to figure out how do I do this as a gay person. Where do you take it from there? So at this point in my life I hated my sexuality so much. I felt so much shame. There was an interview that came out with Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman around that time that I read and I just devoured all those words and what I think they said was that feeling the same sex attraction didn’t exist in the next life. And I thought, “I want to get rid of these feeling so bad I just wish I could die.”  And I have never been suicidal, but there were there were times I thought I would just be so great to just have cancer then I could die a hero and I wouldn’t have to deal with this. It was a dark time for me–really dark. And then when I’ve been home for about 2 years one of my friends from my ward just randomly stopped by our apartment and announced to the whole apartment that one of her friends had just come out to her at dinner. Now at this point it hadn’t occurred to me that there were other gay students at BYU. I thought I was the only one. I had to do this delicate dance of trying to get information from her because I was so intrigued, but not be curious enough that would think I was gay. I found out there were gay BYU students who wrote Anonymous blogs about their experiences, so as soon as she left I found about a dozen. And it was so good to hear other people going through my same experience. It was so healing to know that I wasn’t alone. But then almost all of the blogs said “I’m in the church and  I’m going to stay that way. I’m going to be faithful.” And then by the end almost all of them ended with them leaving the church. And I wondered if that was going to be my story too. That was going to happen to me too. And I’m really scared. I thought, “If I stay in the church and I’m going to be lonely and sad for the rest of my life. If I leave the church, if I have a same-sex partner, I have to leave behind these gospel teaching that I love.” Both choices just felt too hard to make work.

Faith Is Not Blind: That’s incredible, just that image. There’s this fork in the road and you feel like you’ve got to go one way or the other. And then both ways have with them some type of fulfillment, but they also have something that has to go away–something that you love. So how did you deal with that fork in the road?

Ben: I remember one night when I allowed my mind to wander, lying on the grass and telling my Heavenly Father that if he needed me to be lonely and sad for the next 60 years I was going to do that to show him that I could be faithful. I got up from my knees not feeling any better, and I ran over to my scriptures and randomly turned to Alma 40 verse 8. There’s this line that says, “Time is measured only to man” And I thought, “I just told God I could do that. I guess I’ll be really lonely and sad for 60 years.” And I thought that was my answer. I was just going to have to be miserable for the rest of my life and then I would die and then I could be happy. And I got the point I just couldn’t do it on my own anymore. And one day my best friend from high school called me and invited me to go to walk with him, which is something we’ve never done. And I asked my roommate Craig, who was my best friend at the time time if he wanted to go on this walk and he agreed. And so we are walking through Kiwanis Park in East Provo and I just knew I had to tell them and I start to get so nervous I thought I was going to vomit. I felt physically ill like the thought of telling this awful thing. I finally got the courage and they asked me to sit on the grass and I told that for as long as I can remember I’ve been more attracted to men than women (because that was easier to digest than “I’m gay”).  And they both respond with love and kindness. And I remember saying to Craig, “I understand if you don’t want to be my roommate anymore” and he said, “Why wouldn’t I want to be your roommate? You’re the same person you’ve always been.” It was healing knowing that if people knew this thing I thought was so awful and gross and terrible about me and that they were still treating me the same.

Faith Is Not Blind: So you have that moment there your roommate. How did coming out to loved ones and others go? How did the rest of that sort of talk to other people go?

Ben: I’ve come out to hundreds of people including on my blog. So if you know two things about me know that a Latter-day Saint and that I’m gay. It’s almost always been a really wonderful experience. Almost every time the conversation turns to my testimony of the Savior and of the restoration and because of that I found that my sexuality becomes the main vehicle through which I bear my testimony. So it’s become a really marvelous experience for me. The hardest time for coming out to people who are no longer active in the church or who aren’t members. Most my family aren’t members of the church, and they were kind of confused like, “Well, l just be gay.” And so with half of the people in my life I have to explain to them how it’s okay that I’m gay and to the other half my life I have to tell him that it’s okay that I’m a Latter-day Saint.

Faith Is Not Blind: So there’s that tension there, that you’re gay and then that you have this testimony–that tension still exists. I’m interested in how it’s continued through your life. How has your family responded–your immediate maybe your extended family?

Ben: I came out to my two best friends in the summer of 2007 and I told my parents that Thanksgiving. I had no doubt that they were going to love me and care about me. I could have come home with tattoos and a beer in my hand and a husband and they would have just welcomed me. And they responded exactly as I would have expected. They were so loving and kind and my mom just told me she loved me. She asked me if it was a phase I said I hope so. And my dad said, “Well, you’re probably better off being single. Being married is hard. Typical Dad. My parents really wanted me to get to work to overcome it, which is what I wanted to do. So about once a year my dad would say, “So how’s that whole same-sex attraction thing going?” And I would say, “Good.” And my Mom would say, “We love you.”  And that was about it. And they tried to have conversations about it. I just didn’t want to. And then when I was 30–so five years ago–I just I wasn’t sure I could stay in the church. I just felt like I was trapped. I just couldn’t do it anymore. And I opened up my parents kind of unloaded 30 years of experience on them. And my mom said to me–the most faithful woman you could find–she said, “Ben, if you need to leave the church and marry a man, you and he will always be part of our family. And so by honoring my agency and telling me that no matter what I did I was going to be her son, that gave me the freedom to know if I should go or should I stay. Because before I felt trapped–I felt I had to stay. But then as I got to explore that on my own and reconcile my will with God’s Will, I pointed myself to Christ and then I felt pointed to his church. Interestingly, I had the same conversation with my siblings. And they said, “If you leave the church, you will always be welcome in our home.” And that did so much good for me because that’s not that reaction that a lot of people get.

Faith Is Not Blind: Let me ask you some questions about that process, about your experience. Looking back at your life, what’s a piece of advice you would give to a Latter-day Saint who is struggling with same-sex attraction?

Ben: Your values and your behaviors have to be in alignment. If you have certain values, not living up to those, you are not going to be happy. It was not my job to prescribe any one’s values for them, but your values and your behaviors have to be the same if you want to thrive in life. That’s something I often share. I made some decisions based on fear and we need to make decisions based on faith. I just made some decisions based on fear and I encourage people to make decisions based on faith. The other thing I would say is, “Don’t focus on outcomes. Focus on faith.” Because I thought I had to be married to be happy. I thought I had a family to be happy. I thought I had to do X Y and Z to be happy in life. Don’t focus on outcomes. If you had told me ten years ago that I’d be living the life that I’m living now and I would love it, I would have thought you were crazy. And God can see so much more than we can see. There are two scriptures I’d like to share. One of them is 1 Corinthians 2:9 and it roughly says, “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared  for them that love him. “ and Doctrine and Covenants 58: 3 that says, “Ye cannot behold with your natural eyes, for the present time, the design of your God concerning those things which shall come hereafter, and the glory which shall follow after much tribulation.”  I used to try and  I envisioned what my life was going to be like and I just learned that you know I can’t do that.  I don’t know what it will look like when I’m 45 or 55 or 65 or 75 or however long I’m able to live. But what I do know is that if I focus on staying connected to heaven and receiving inspiration that my life is going to be amazing.

Faith Is Not Blind: Yeah, and it’s that interesting distinction between faith and outcomes, that  those aren’t the same thing. Then in the end it in some ways goes back to what you experienced as an adolescent–that feeling of I don’t like how I’m feeling I don’t  like this but if I keep doing the right thing I’ll get that outcome. It sounds like what you’re talking about now is the outcome that matters to some extent, but it’s not what I focus on. I I focus on my relationship with God and in making sure those things are aligned which is wonderful. That’s fantastic advice for those who are going through this experience. What advice would you give to the parents, siblings, and friends of Latter-day Saints who are same-sex attracted?

Ben: There’s so much advice I could give. The main thing I would say is to be “proximate.” This is an idea I got from Bryan Stevenson who wrote a great book. He talks about being close to people who are different and we need to get close to people who have different experiences. So if you have a gay loved one in your life, you need to really dig into that experience and really sit with them and be with them in those experiences. If you have a gay loved one, talk with them in a humble way and ask them, “What’s it like for you to experience same-sex attraction? What’s it like to be gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender?”  And ask, “How can I help you?”  I would also ask, “You use this label of same-sex attraction or gay, lesbian, bisexual. What do those labels mean to you?”  I would ask, “Is there anything you want to talk about more?” Because when I first came out, I had so many things I had been holding in for 23 years or so and I didn’t want it to be awkward every time I brought it up. I appreciated it when people said things like, “Thank you for sharing that last week. What else did you want to say that you haven’t had the chance to say before?”  Them just opening up dialogue was so healing for me because then I didn’t always have to do it.

Faith Is Not Blind: It sounds like from your experience that one of the central feelings you felt was isolation. And you mentioned shame before.

Ben: Definitely. Right.

Faith Is Not Blind: You mentioned before that isolating feeling and feeling of shame when you weren’t sure how your roommates were going to respond. In that story when you told your roommate, “If you don’t want to be roommates with me anymore.” And then to have someone who’s willing to listen. I just think that’s good, I think, for all of us to be aware of. I love the idea of proximity. That’s important in all the relationships you have with people, but I think especially those that feel isolated.

Ben: President Ballard gave a BYU devotional in November 2017 where he said we need to listen to and understand what our LGBT brothers and sisters are feeling and experiencing and we really do a much better job of listening and understanding. There have been times I’ve met people where they decide to preach to me and tell me things. You know, it always comes from a good place. But the idea that “you know I’ve been thinking of is my entire life” can come off as really trite. But those people to really sit down and ask me questions, those have been the most holy experiences for me.

Faith is Not Blind: For family members and and young Latter-Day Saints who are struggling with same-sex attraction or for priesthood leaders and other people in a ward structure–maybe the young men’s presidency and young women’s presidency–what would you say to them about how they can help just in their roles in the church and serving in the church?

Ben: The youth today are hungry to hear about the topic. They have gay friends at school or transgender friends and they just want to like how this fits in with the gospel. So if we can have discussions about LGBT issues at church, I think that would be amazing.  You know it’s not like we need to say, “Today is LGBT Day.” I don’t think that’s how it needs to work. But Elder Holland gave such a good example in the conference talk– I think it was in 2015–where he talked about mothers and the son on a mission who came home who was gay.  And he said, “ And he didn’t change and no one expected him to.” We can just talk about LGBT issues in organic ways and make it part of our regular discourse. Any time I hear about LGBT issues, it’s usually within the context of it being a sin. Elder Ballard has said that it’s not a choice–it’s a complex reality. As a church we should be reaching out with love and kindness. And so if we can talk about those principles more regularly in church–I think that would do a lot of good.  And one way that I would recommend that priesthood leaders talk about this issue is frame it in the context of the parable of the Good Samaritan. Because that Parable was prompted by two questions. A lawyer asked Jesus first, “How do you gain eternal life?”  And then he says, “You love God and you love your neighbor.” And then Jesus says, “Who’s your neighbor?”  And to answer that question He gives the parable of the Good Samaritan. And who was the good Samaritan?  The Samaritan was someone he would have hated. He was an apostate and not welcome in the community and that was the example of a person he gave who was going to go to heaven. And I think that’s really interesting. You know, I think we do a lot of judging and I think we do a lot better job not judging people who make choices different than ours. Most of my LGBT friends who had been our members of church aren’t actively participating more and I wish everyone could stay, but you know that’s their choice. I need to honor their agency. So what can we to do love those people who have left and how are we going to include them in our circles of love even if they’re choosing a path different then the one that we’ve chosen for ourselves?

Faith is Not Blind: Maybe you’ve experienced this, but but I always cringe a little bit in certain situations where–whether it is homosexuality or even some other things–people will make a comment about people that aren’t like them because they think they’re in a room full of people like them. And that assumption I think can be can be hurtful and also isolating. When someone makes a comment about gays or whatever and they just don’t realize they could be in the room. I think they should keep in mind that those are good conversations to have with those individuals. I love the idea of it being organic. And then also keeping in mind, “How would that feel if somebody in this room is suffering with that or struggling having some questions or feeling isolated–how can we help them?” That’s a really great perspective, but I think especially in this case where it’s so isolating. You talked about that fork in the road and that’s a really tough place to be in. I think our community and  our religion needs to reach out more and be sensitive. That can only help rather than hinder.

Ben: I want to share one more piece of advice. The Church website has a section called “counseling resources” and there’s a tab that says, “same-sex attraction.” It’s specifically for church leaders so you have to be on a stake or ward council to have access to it. It gives some advice about what to do when someone comes out and how to help them. And one of the things that says in there is to “encourage them to seek their own inspiration on how to live their life.” That’s the most important thing we can teach any member is to seek inspiration from the Holy Ghost. When I did that and when I started to find out what God wanted for me then none of my behavior has changed. I had always been active in the church and I stayed that way. None of my behavior has changed, but the reason I was doing it changed and that made all the difference in the world.

Faith is Not Blind: That’s fantastic. Thank you so much for being willing to share your experience and your advice which is really really helpful.